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This episode focuses on application—how biblical authority, discipline, correction, and leadership are exercised within marriage.
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A Husband’s Guide to Implementing Christian Domestic Discipline
Thanks for putting out this podcast series. My wife and I are 33 with two kids. I’ve been reading up accross your various sites and have been workin go your 20 doctrines of gender roles into the various Bible topics we discuss each night. (We pray and read a passage of scripture every night after the kids go to bed) Since we are a decade older than your recommended age for CDD, I’m taking all this extremely slow and I will see how far we get. Do you have any recommendations for how this could be adjusted for older women? With the understanding that getting full submission in CDD is not probable.
kremar,
The practical application and techniques I have given in this podcast apply to women of all ages, whether they are in their 20s or 50s. The big difference is – will the 33 year old wife actually accept it when her husband attempts to spank her? In my experience mentoring couples – is women in their late 20’s or 30s like your wife that tend to fight back harder. They are more likely to tell you “If you ever try to do that again – I will call the cops and I am out of here and you will go to jail before we get divorced”.
If you can get past that point where she accepts it (with only moderate resistance as most women give when spankings are administered first few times) than you are good place. However I have still seen it where an older woman initially accepts spankings, but then the man gets further into the program I discuss in these podcasts – specifically trying to get her to be 100% submissive to his sexual desires and then she quits the whole program.
But if you can’t get her to accept CDD at all, that does not mean you just throw your hands up and do nothing. If you listen to podcast series “How to discipline your wife as Christ does his church” which has a link right on the main page as you come into the men’s section – that can help. There are lot of non-physical ways I teach men how to discipline their wives and these methods can be used to compel sexual submission as well. But you will only get so far with that in that sexual arena as spanking works far better and faster. But hey – if you get your wife to be 50 percent more submissive to you in regard to your sexual desires, that still is a lot more progress than most men ever see.
Hey BGR,
Interesting stuff – I agree this is difficult to implement. It’s just so radically countercultural, it can only work if she’s 100% bought in, almost like its a little conspiracy – y’all against the world. I will say though that IF she submits a husband will see great changes in her approach to daily interactions, and she will benefit from giving up the struggle. A huge piece of all of this is you have to have ironclad frame, and ‘dominate yourself’ first. A weak man who is overly reliant on his wife for financial, emotional, or logistical support has no chance of pulling this off, because she can’t trust him enough to make herself so vulnerable.
Trent,
I think the woman must be 100% bought in to the concept that wives must submit to their husbands in EVERYTHING and that husbands have the right to discipline their wives. Many wives are shocked the first time their husband’s physically discipline them even though the husband has laid the scriptural foundation for discipline for weeks and months ahead of time. At first they may not like it all or agree. But the real issue is whether or not they come to accept it as valid form of discipline that can help them and their marriage.
I agree that is as much or more about the man than the woman. He must be strong and firm as the Bible says 1 Corinthians 16:13 (NASB) “Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.”
A man must absolutely dominate himself first – God told this to Cain in Genesis 4:7 “If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.” We as men are called to rule over our natures as well as our wives.
And I agree that a man who does not hold the major cards in the marriage (like being provider for home, in charge of finances) will find these things difficult to implement. That is why I work with men to firm themselves up first and to be fully studied in the Word and know their world view first – then they can implement their world view(frame) with their wives.
One more thought – as a dad and husband, more and more I’m coming to the conclusion that (counter to the cultural narrative that spanking is exclusively for little kids) spanking should be almost exclusively reserved for older children and adults (i.e. wives). In my experience, corporal punishment is only useful in correction when the individual receiving it recognizes and appreciates the authority and intent of the disciplinarian, appreciates the wrongfulness of their conduct, and knows how to correct it.
Little kids don’t have this level of knowledge or maturity. Little kids act usually act out because they lack knowledge, self-control, etc., and it’s usually more effective in correcting their behavior to patiently give them those skillsets through discussion, explanation, and calm, consistent enforcement of the rules.
Older children and adults, on the other hand, misbehave for far more sophisticated reasons. For them, they know the rules, they understand why the rules exist, and they have the capacity to appreciate the wrongful or right nature of their conduct and govern themselves accordingly. Then, when they misbehave, they also have the capacity to choose to submit, or not, to discipline. They will generally choose to submit when they recognize the authority of the disciplinarian and that submission/discipline is good for them. My parents only spanked for severe, intentional misbehavior, and generally we had a choice. We could submit to a lecture and a spanking, and all would be forgiven (but with the promise of a more severe penalty for recidivism), or we could save our hide and our pride by (foolishly) accepting some other punishment lasting weeks or months, appropriate to the offense. If we told Mom and Dad to get bent altogether, we slept in the barn and ate leftovers (essentially, we received the minimal care and feeding required by law, and not a bit more, based on our disrespectful, willful failure to comply with the family values.
The marital application here is obvious – if she wants to submit to corporal punishment, great. It’s a cheat code. If not, provide her with alternate discipline options, and if necessary, withdraw your resources, and time, until she is behaving properly.
Trent,
I don’t think it is always wrong for a parent or husband to offer a choice on what punishment will be administered – God did it with King David in 1 Chronicles 21:9-13. But most of the time God did not offer a choice, but he chose the punishment like when King David committed adultery with Bathsheba. He said their child was died and David begged for it not to happen – it still happened. And I think we should follow God’s pattern that most of the time we as the authority determine the punishment.
When I say husband’s should not spank unwilling wives, I do not mean the woman has authority or option to choose her punishment. She does not. But because we live in sin cursed time, a time when feminist governments give women rights God does not give them – I advice men not to spank wives who will strongly resist or threaten to call the cops as I don’t want to see good men put in prison. There are other options for discipline the husbands can choose.
I respectfully, but strongly disagree with you that spanking is not for little kids. The Bible says “Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him” Proverbs 22:15. I do not agree that spanking should be exclusively for older children and adults – God does not say we cannot or should spank young children until they reach a certain age. I have seen it myself, having raised 5 children, that a small child, even a 1 year old little toddler, very much understands what a swat on the butt means. It means they messed up.
The most spoiled rotten toddlers and other preschool kids I have ever seen are the ones who have never been spanked by their parents.
BGR,
Appreciate your principled thoughts – completely agree that parents and husbands have the right and obligation to discipline their household. I should clarify that I’m not saying parents should never spank little kids, just that in my experience a ‘real’ over the knee spanking hasn’t been necessary with the little kids (although a swat to get them moving or keep them out of harm’s way is a different story).
But I’m not naive to think that discussion and consistency will work forever – and I feel that consequences should get harsher, not lighter, as kids grow up. After all, Real Life doles out some pretty tough consequences, like disease, prison, poverty, etc. Far worse than a few swats on the butt and twenty minutes in the corner.
So, I do intend that my children will be under my authority as long as they are unmarried and sharing the family’s resources. They will behave respectfully, they will not have cell phones, and they will not have unfettered access to the internet. It’s amazing to me how many weak-willed men throw up their hands and bemoan how helpless they are to discipline their family, all while showering their bratty wife and kids with affection, praise, and money. It’s mind-blowing, and it’s everywhere.
Also agree with the point that providing choices of punishment may not always be appropriate – and maybe not necessary where the deserving person is ‘down with’ the program. But in this world we live in where your wife can easily cry ‘abuse’ to a judge (or your kids can irreparably nuke your family’s welfare by ‘reporting’ you), I do think having some element of a consent framework in place can be helpful for those times when a wife is agreeable to submission as a general construct, but has some heavy societal roadblocks that prevent her from submitting to corporal punishment. I imagine once she’s acquiesced a few times, she would (as we teenagers did) come to realize that it’s better to take one’s medicine, learn from it, and move on, than to drag out an alternate discipline method or leave things unresolved.
Again, just my perspective/thoughts! Thanks for all the work you put in here courageously countering the dominant feminist ideologies that are socially harmful in so many ways.
Appreciate your support and prayers for my ministry Trent!
I am very intrigued by this especially the sexual aspect. Especially introducing something like anal to the marriage because my wife gets cringey when I bring up the process of getting prepared. The biggest problem and barrier has been getting her accustomed to the idea that even though yes it will hurt the first few times it won’t always hurt. Also how do I get her used to the idea that sex doesn’t always to be pleasurable for her? Btw my wife practice cdd but it is non physical and honestly it isn’t giving me the results I want and we have been doing it for three years. My wife I isn’t argumentative but she begs a lot and tries to circumvent punishment.
Braxton,
If the non-physical discipline is not working my answer would be two fold. If you think she would accept physical discipline based on the prerequisites I discuss in this podcast then I would definitely switch to physical discipline as that really is the best form of discipline for breaking through wrong thought patterns in wives. However, if you think she would not be accepting of physical discipline, I would just say you are not doing the non-physical discipline hard enough. You need to get stricter with it. It is possible for a man to make his wife’s life very uncomfortable without him ever using any form of physical discipline.
Basically how it works is you tell her that sex is not always going to be about her pleasure and that some acts may be moderately uncomfortable or even painful for her. She then needs to repeat back to you that she accepts this principle. If you feel she is not accepting it or she refuses to repeat back that she accept this principle then discipline is applied. If it is non-physical, it could be things like you withdrawing your time or money from her, basically shutting her out like God did to his wife Israel until she would repent.
Larry